400 Starting Issues

[johnD]

Hi Smallkat, just to prove I can stay on topic.... I had a good look at the ignition system once I had it running correctly. It does like a well charged battery to give a blue spark, after a few churns, that spark definitely get weaker. Having lights on permanently can't help either. Having a rumiage through my drawers, I came upon an early set of leads and plug caps off some long forgotton project. These are early model NGK's, but, if you look into the plug cap connection, you will see a notch for a flat head screwdriver to fit. Unscrew the connection, and out drops the internal resistor..... As our spark plugs also have an internal resisitor, you won't be spreading RF interference to anyone still on AM radio and...that gives your HT side a bit more help. From being the hardest thing I have ever had to get running, she now purrs into life at the touch of the button, lot of choke to fire up, then a little until she warms. Nice thing is, I can play with it all day its so quiet, neighbours are talking to me again... Worth having a look at autojumbles for these early plug caps, long deleted from the NGK range, they are all moulded in these days.

I did have a look at the clutch. This one definitely has a bit more play than I would like, but a tap or two turned the driven gear enough to tighten up the shock absorber springs. It doesent rattle now, but I've not actually driven it yet so we will see. One big difference between these and the GSF engines is that these have straight cut gears, crank to clutch, the Bandits are squew (I know theres a correct term) cut. So there will always be a modicum of rattle. Obviously, Suzuki went for quiet on the Bandits and performance on the later engines. (Less friction with straight cut gears). Pity, as the Bandit clutch is more robust, five tension springs and five shock absorber springs. Probably weighs more so....

Anyway, flue and holidays stopped proceedings, but I might just get this on the road if the weather stays reasonably mild, £80 insurance seems quite reasonable...?

[Smallkat]

I wasn't bothered about the topic drift!

I believe that with transistorised ignitions, the battery does have to give a certain amount of voltage otherwise it does not function correctly. However, I regard all electrical things as magical wizardry, so what do I know? I don't suppose you have a part number (or four digit stock number) for the caps?

'Squew' = helical I'm guessing with only 50hp, they didn't need a hefty clutch.

Sorry to hear you were not well, don't forget to get a flu jab next year. Could reduce the chance of a winter illness.

My insurance is about £280 fully comp, but it does cover all my classic bikes and my slightly more modern Buell.

[johnD]

The term is 'helical' cut gears, and I didn't have to google it either!
Had the flue jab, pretty sure it protected me from the worst, just suffered the runny nose, achy bones, can't be damned version.
Back on topic.
Yes, you are quite correct, electronic ignitions of all flavours do need a good diet of volts. Once you drop below circa 10 volts, you are basically urinating against the wind. A few churns on an oldish starter motor gobbling up the amps, a battery left standing, especially in cold weather, wiring that is ageing and becoming resistive, some corroding earths...... Amazing that these old things do manage to start!
Why Suzuki stuck with this old system, even into the '90's is, actually, beyond me. Everyone else had moved to CDI... Maybe Suzy had a wharehouse full of the things.
As to the plug caps, I have no idea what the part numbers would be. You are definitely looking at (very) old stock or the autojumbles. I can't even find a reference to them. I only vagually remember from some vintage magazine advocating this 'mod' to aid in starting. I'll keep my eyes peeled at Newark or Stafford, you can only tell them by actually looking at the plug connection.
Oh, nearly forgot. I do have a multi bike policy, but its not due until Feb so I'll bite the bullet and insure this seperately. BTW £160. Aprillia Falco and Honda CB350K2.

Cheers all.

[fossie]

Very interesting ....however it's a small saving grace , the headlamp is cut out once the starter motor is pressed via one of the relays in the fairing to aid starting . ( This actually shortens the life of the bulb from experience of dispatching v storms and Bandits for the last 11 years ...1 bulb a month , not just myself but the other 4 bikes on circuit .)

[Smallkat]

I didn't realise the headlamp cut out when starting, I'm going to check mine next time.

With my multibike policy, I can add bikes whenever I want. But as I don't ride unless it is dry and over 15 degrees (Celsius), it's not an issue at this time of the year for me.

[Smallkat]

Eight weeks since last start-up. Just to recap, this is with ethanol-free fuel. Nearly started on third go, but did start on fourth go. Went out for a 20 mile ride, all working perfectly.

The TS185 started on fourth kick and the X7 on third kick. Both on E5 with additive. Both taken for a short spin with no real issues.

Although JohnD's experiment with the 550 carbs has probably killed this topic, I think it's clear that it's a specific carb/fuel problem with the 400. I've run out of ethanol-free, so put some E5 with additive in today and will try another start-up next week.

[fossie]

I have always believed it's down to the very thin external brass pipe that feeds the choke system , if it blocks with stale fuel or adhesive from a reattatchment after cack handy refitting of carbs...
The brass is affected badly these carbs are present on 250 ...which suffers the same .
The diameter is so small and no way to check if it clear .

[Tonykat]

Started these two up this morning, no problems, taking 400 for mot tomorrow so that’s when it will play up

[Smallkat]

When was the last time they were started, what fuel do you use and what part of the country are you in?

[Smallkat]

Love both of those paint schemes and coveting that Yoshi.