Teapot - how can it seize when it wasnt running??

[mark_biggles]

Engine sort of seized??
hi there
Ive got a 2002 750F er.. and its only got 5000 miles on the clock (yes, shame on me, I know...)
Wifey accidentally 'pruned' the power cable to the garage while pruning the hedge..
Trickle charger went off..
battery went flat..
months passed..
petrol evaporated, gunked up the carbs..
months passed...
then things started to look up..
bought ultrasonic cleaner and new battery..
cleaned carbs, put them back on, and to my delight she started up, (first time in over 18 months)
rough running and a growing puddle of petrol on the garage floor told me that i had forgotten to connect the vacuum pipe to the petrol tap (I had selected PRI position), so I
stopped the engine (it had only run for 60 secs)
Hope you are still with me cos this is where it gets interesting...
tank off again and connected pipe, tank back on and pressed the starter button...
loud CLUNK but no movement - engine was locked solid! engaged 6th gear and gently tried to rotate wheel ..
still locked solid
with clutch in the wheel rotates so it is not the gearbox.
took out the plugs - still 'seized'
dis-lodged the starter motor - still seized
very depressed (and confused, this is the only bike Ive ever owned from new and I HAVE looked after it )
then I tried to put a bit more force into trying to rotate the wheel, in 6th, with the plugs out and I can (just) turn it.
I poked a screw driver into one of the plug holes and I can see the piston is moving most of its stroke. There is a bit of a noise, a bit like when pushnig the bike with the brake a teeny bit on, (or trying out the medieval torture rack at the tower of London - well actually I ve never done that, but I'm imagining a sort of mechanical groaning sound)

Could some ancillary like the alternator or the oil pump have seized?
I'm baffled... any ideas, please?????
thanks
Mark

[mark_biggles]

hi Blix, thanks for the reply
I wondered about a hydraulic lock too, but the weird thing is, it didnt have chance to 'fire' the engine didnt turn at all. It was almost as though I had put it in gear and tried to start it, but without the lurch that you'd get (of course, it wouldnt actually start anyway with the clutch out due to the clutch interlock switch - but you know what I mean)
Part of me just wants to pack the bike off to the garage, (even that isn't so easy cos the nearest bike shop is a few miles away) but it just bugs and intrigues me as to what is wrong!

I guess if the oil down the pots DOES make it free up, then that would point to some sort of cylinder bore seize, but as I say, it only ran for a minute, which I wouldn't have thought was long enough for it to seize anyway. Its been a fairly pampered 'garage' bike and never used a drop of oil, and despite the low mileage, I used to start the bike up regularly and it never smoked or made any funny noises etc

Anyway, I'll try your suggestions and report back
cheers
Mark

[stockcar]

Has it filled the bores with petrol and hydro-locked??

[fetishkat]

Silly question, was the bike kept on its side stand or upright?

[Uncle Bob]

Even on Pri the float and needles should stop the petrol overfilling the carbs, so that fact that it didn't implies there is an issue there and that it's possible it overflowed, hydraulically locked and that unfortunately for you the CLUNK was not something good.

I had an issue with a TZR250 I got last year in that the petrol tap (vacumm) failed as well as the needle valve in the carbs and it dropped the petrol into the crankcases and locked it from underneath (as a 2 stroke can!). Wonder it your tap is also iffy.

From what you have said though you can turn the back wheel and get the pistons to travel their full stroke so it's turning through 360 degrees?
This does make a somewhat horrible (metal on metal noise)?

It still sounds like something has broken in the engine (due to the possible lock ) or otherwise. Without taking to a shop yet, you could drain the engine oil and check it for any debris in it that might indicate something wrong, also you could try a cheap USB Endoscope (look on Ebay. less than a tenner from UK or cheaper from abroad but a longer wait), and look down the plug holes to see if anything is amiss.

Might get one of these myself!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2In1-5M-Andro ... Swi8VZQlRz

As an aside did you do this last year and give up hope? I did a quick Google for the issue and found your post on https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=316937 which was dated Nov 2016!!!
In that post you say after the initial CLUNK you fiddled and then tried again and it turned over and then went clunk again. With that info it could be the starter so you might want to check that out. Ethanol in the petrol will rot the O Rings in the crabs so if you do free the engine up I would get new Viton O Rings all round in the carbs and Vacuum tap repair kit (probably from NRP)

UB

[stockcar]

in general if it has filled a cylinder with petrol then it will stop the motor doing any damage at such low rpm that the starter spins at

[Kryten]

I'm impressed! A lot of helpful info and all for a "Teapot"....


So the motor is basically an oil/air cooled GSX, I have had more experience with the proper air cooled ones but...

if you feel up to it, I would suggest dropping the oil into a catch tray and checking for fuel contamination, then looking for bits of metal in it as well (so start off with a clean tray). The fact it was leaving a puddle of fuel on the floor is a worry, As previously stated the float valves should have prevented the fuel running out of the carb vents irrespective of the vacuum line connected.

Then I'd go for dropping off the clutch cover and the cover on the left hand side of the engine to check the drive to the alternator,starter motor. Might be that the sprag clutch has failed.

Not sure that you can turn the motor very effectively while in gear even in a higher gear. But if you can get a glamorous assistant to turn the engine over while you look and listen at the clutch and primary drive (you could even whip the cam cover off and observe the cams are being driven properly could be a cam chain tensioner/chain failure).

But reading through the posts again, it looks like an hydraulic lock on one of the cylinders and maybe a broken ring.

Good luck and don't forget to update us with the simple fix/carnage*



*Delete as appropriate

[johnr]

they have some proper endoscope cameras in aldi at the moment (or is it lidl) theyre about 60 quid, but if youve enough use for them then worth having for bikes and other diy jobs. i got one and use it at work as well as in the shed.