Ethanol destroying fuel systems?

[katsd]

I've been reading quite a bit recently about the effects of the addition of ethanol to petrol & the damage it can do to the fuel systems of older cars & bikes. My understanding is that it's not a good thing as it can destroy the rubber in the system & as it is hygroscopic draws in moisture & retains it. Do a bit of googling & you can find numerous articles about the problems it causes. There are a few additives you can add to the fuel, just wondered if anyone had any thoughts/experience/in depth knowledge of this?

[fossie]

This is why leaving modern petrol for a few weeks lessens the octane rating and after a few month the carbs gum up as the ethanol evaporates and leaves the additives in the carb passageways , turning to varnish like finish.

[johnr]

it is also guilty of disolving epoxy based fuel tank sealants like petseal, the disolved resin then travels through the fuel system and is responsible for glogging fuelways and air jets in the carbs. as it absorbs water from the air it can also cause corrosion of steel components like fuel tanks, and just to really piss on your bonfire, it attacks not only the rubber or butyl rubber components of carbs like diaphragms and o rings as well as the tips of some rubber tipped float needle jets, but it also attacks and embrittles some sorts of plastic. there is also some evidence that it attacks some metal components of carbs, zinc and some alloys, including the alloys used to solder together the brass floats in old brit and some early jap carbs. essentially, the soldered joints on floats become pourous and the float fills up and , well, doesnt float!
we used to allow upto 5% of ethanol in petrol which was known as E5, now, following eu regs and consultation with the manufacturers and the petrol supply trade, we have got E10, containing upto 10% ethanol. there were plans to introduce E15 and even E20 based petrols, but the car makers couldnt guarantee that it wouldnt attack more of the fuel trains components. this is going to becoms a big problem in years to come. most modern stuff is ok with E10 but pretty much everything the japs made prior to 2000ish may be at risk from it.

[Katgeezer]

There's also issues with plastic fuel tanks like on my Triumph Tiger apparently. Follows on from what John was saying about it making stuff brittle. In the US, Tiger owners have had chunks of plastic coming off the inside of their tanks. They use a higher ratio I think (but not sure), but I'm quite concerned I'll need tank liner in virtually every bike I own, as I guess will any classic owners.

As an aside does anyone know if those fuel stabilisers help stave off the effects of the ethanol??

[katsd]

For years I've been adding Briggs & Stratton Fuel Fit Additive/Stabiliser to both my mower & my bike & they seem to fire up after a bit of a stand - whether this stuff negates the effect of Ethanol, I don't know but to be on the safe side I've done a bit more reading over the last couple of days about additives. Found this on classicmonthly.com

"The Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs has concluded its test of a number of products claiming to “provide a high level of protection against potential corrosion of fuel systems, including tanks, pipework and fuel metering equipment on historic vehicles caused by the addition of ethanol into petrol.” Test conditions simulated up to 12 months storage of ethanol-added fuel in a vehicle fuel tank."

The five that they recommend are
■ Miller VSPe Power Plus
■ Miller VSPe
■ Miller EPS
■ Frost Ethomix
■ Flexolite Ethanolmate

Millers is mixed at a rate of 250 ml to 40 ltrs, whilst both the Frosts & Flexolite mix at 250 ml to 250 l which works for me as it's a straight 1-1 mix ratio. After a bit of hunting around both of their websites, I had a chat with Flexolite & ordered some from them as it works out slightly cheaper. Suppose the problem is that you ain't going to know whether it's not working till it's too late.

[Katgeezer]

Interesting stuff.

How much money are we talking as with my rather large (albeit dismantled) collection it could get expensive!!!

[katsd]

They're retailing them at £15 a bottle on their website but I bought three bottles for £33 inc delivery. If I buy a box of ten it'll knock em down to a tenner a bottle delivered. I suppose what you need to do is go in with a few mates & buy in bulk or alternatively, see if they're sold at one of the shows. Now there's an idea - set up a stall at Stafford - or rent the end of our stand!! Any takers????

[katsd]

I lied - they sell them in a box of twelve, not ten.

[Katgeezer]

Could work as a bulk order eh? Need a few of us to band together. We'll see.

[johnr]

ha ha ha ha, ood luck with that.i remember bulk ordering chain oilers for folk here and elsewhere. once bitten for sure. much less hassle to just punch yourself in the eye!!!!