Sorry, that was a typo!
It should have been at 2000rpm.
At idle, it's 13.87V.
Have gone all the way to 5000rpm, and it does not exceed 15V. No more dangerously hot phase wires, and just a little bit of warmth from the RR.
Battery appears to be ok - It's the old one off my Triumph, which I thought was knackered - But the Kat seems to like it! We have a new battery in the shed for the Kat, but I don't want to fill it and put it on until there is an Optimate available. When we got the kat it had a brand new battery on it, but a few months of inactivity knackered it. The plates are severely sulphated, and I couldnt bring it back, not even with Epsom Salts and a good high current jolt!
J
650 - A Couple Of Questions
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G0FHM
Re: 650 - A Couple Of Questions
Just checked the cam timing......
Looks like we are a tooth retarded on the inlet cam!
That would explain the little escape of compression from the inlet ports when turning it over by hand. I assumed it was beacuse the valves had been out and re ground and they werent bedded in yet. And probably explains the overlap that I mentioned, too.
Studying the manual, the first pin on the chain "Pin 1" is to the right side of the "2" arrow (the pins are either side of the tooth on the exhaust cam) and pin 20 is directly above the "3" arrow on the inlet. Counting the pins in that fashion on ours, gives 21 pins - So a tooth retarded.
Can somebody have a look at their manual please? (page 104) and tell me if my interpretation is correct?
I know there was a bit of a "debate" when I timed it up after rebuild as to the interpretation of the manual (which I lost incidentally). I did turn it over multiple times with a spanner when I got it back together, and no valves appeared to be hitting the pistons. Hopefully I've dodged bullet! Worse case scenario is pulling the head off and putting 4 new inlet valves in.
I've had that before with a twin cam GM engine - I did the timing belt, and got the exhaust a tooth out. It was rough as a***holes at low revs, but at higher revs it went like a rocket. Kinda the same symptoms as the kat is showing. Rough and struggling up to 4000rpm, then revs cleanly over 4000.
What a pratt......
J
Looks like we are a tooth retarded on the inlet cam!
That would explain the little escape of compression from the inlet ports when turning it over by hand. I assumed it was beacuse the valves had been out and re ground and they werent bedded in yet. And probably explains the overlap that I mentioned, too.
Studying the manual, the first pin on the chain "Pin 1" is to the right side of the "2" arrow (the pins are either side of the tooth on the exhaust cam) and pin 20 is directly above the "3" arrow on the inlet. Counting the pins in that fashion on ours, gives 21 pins - So a tooth retarded.
Can somebody have a look at their manual please? (page 104) and tell me if my interpretation is correct?
I know there was a bit of a "debate" when I timed it up after rebuild as to the interpretation of the manual (which I lost incidentally). I did turn it over multiple times with a spanner when I got it back together, and no valves appeared to be hitting the pistons. Hopefully I've dodged bullet! Worse case scenario is pulling the head off and putting 4 new inlet valves in.
I've had that before with a twin cam GM engine - I did the timing belt, and got the exhaust a tooth out. It was rough as a***holes at low revs, but at higher revs it went like a rocket. Kinda the same symptoms as the kat is showing. Rough and struggling up to 4000rpm, then revs cleanly over 4000.
What a pratt......
J
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sparki
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Re: 650 - A Couple Of Questions
isnt pin 1 directly above the arrow? post up a pic of your #1 and #2 arrows bud 
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G0FHM
Re: 650 - A Couple Of Questions
Steve,
Looking at the diagrams in the manual, it shows pin 1 as to the right of the arrow, and pin 20 directly above the 3 arrow (by the looks of it, arrow 2 is between 2 teeth on the ex cam), and if I count the pins as the manual says then pin 21 is directly above the 3 arrow!
The crank is in the correct place (with the marks, and the screwdriver down the plughole to confirm TDC) and arrow 1 does indeed line up "flush with the gasketed surface".
I'll have a go at getting pictures, but I cannot guarantee how successful I'll be - It's dark in the shed, and my phone has no flash (Windows obviously can't handle it, unlike Android!).
I'll try and report back!
J
Looking at the diagrams in the manual, it shows pin 1 as to the right of the arrow, and pin 20 directly above the 3 arrow (by the looks of it, arrow 2 is between 2 teeth on the ex cam), and if I count the pins as the manual says then pin 21 is directly above the 3 arrow!
The crank is in the correct place (with the marks, and the screwdriver down the plughole to confirm TDC) and arrow 1 does indeed line up "flush with the gasketed surface".
I'll have a go at getting pictures, but I cannot guarantee how successful I'll be - It's dark in the shed, and my phone has no flash (Windows obviously can't handle it, unlike Android!).
I'll try and report back!
J
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G0FHM
Re: 650 - A Couple Of Questions
I give up on the bloody thing! 
Took the cams out, re timed it (it may have been a tooth retarded), and now it runs a lot "crisper" and is more responsive.... But we are back to misfiring on no4!
I've swapped the coils over (to rule out a dodgy plug lead, like we had before), and it hasn't moved the misfire to another cylinder. I've swapped 1 & 4 plugs over, to rule that out.
Compression test on all 4 shows them to be within a few psi of each other.
Vac guages are showing all balanced.
I've popped the top off the carb, and the needle has petrol on it, and there is juice in the throttle body.
Squirting WD40 in the back of the carb when running shows no noticeable difference.
No 4 plug is clean and dry (no petrol on the end), and when taking that and No 1 plug out, No1 was noticeably hotter than 4.
What am I missing here?
J
Took the cams out, re timed it (it may have been a tooth retarded), and now it runs a lot "crisper" and is more responsive.... But we are back to misfiring on no4!
I've swapped the coils over (to rule out a dodgy plug lead, like we had before), and it hasn't moved the misfire to another cylinder. I've swapped 1 & 4 plugs over, to rule that out.
Compression test on all 4 shows them to be within a few psi of each other.
Vac guages are showing all balanced.
I've popped the top off the carb, and the needle has petrol on it, and there is juice in the throttle body.
Squirting WD40 in the back of the carb when running shows no noticeable difference.
No 4 plug is clean and dry (no petrol on the end), and when taking that and No 1 plug out, No1 was noticeably hotter than 4.
What am I missing here?
J
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callyboy
Re: 650 - A Couple Of Questions
Sounds like a job for Superman......
Whats it like on a run? Still misfires?
Pete
Whats it like on a run? Still misfires?
Pete
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G0FHM
Re: 650 - A Couple Of Questions
Pete,
It's not road legal yet, so I cant take it for a blast!
I've ruled out a bent valve by measuring compression "dry" and then a squirt of WD40 down the plughole. That lifted the compression by circa 25psi.
One thing that is niggling at me, is this new coil we bought a couple of weeks ago. It runs a lot hotter than the existing Denso unit that covers 2&3. I swapped the plug leads between 1&4 (shouldn't make any difference right? It's wasted spark.... ) and then when I pulled no 4 plug cap off, the coil started arcing to the frame!
So there are 2 niggles... Is the coil goosed? And I'm wondering if any water has found its way into the float bowl of 4. I'm using a squeezy bottle as a temporary fuel supply and the other day I noticed that toward the end of the bottle some of the fuel looked a bit milky. And we all know that petrol floats on top of watter... And if the jets are in water and the petrol is above.. But then the water should get sucked through shouldn't it, regardless of whether it burns or not, to be replaced with juice.. .
Oh well, I'll drop the contents of the float bowl tomorrow and see what comes out!
My brain is too fried to worry bout it now!
J
It's not road legal yet, so I cant take it for a blast!
I've ruled out a bent valve by measuring compression "dry" and then a squirt of WD40 down the plughole. That lifted the compression by circa 25psi.
One thing that is niggling at me, is this new coil we bought a couple of weeks ago. It runs a lot hotter than the existing Denso unit that covers 2&3. I swapped the plug leads between 1&4 (shouldn't make any difference right? It's wasted spark.... ) and then when I pulled no 4 plug cap off, the coil started arcing to the frame!
So there are 2 niggles... Is the coil goosed? And I'm wondering if any water has found its way into the float bowl of 4. I'm using a squeezy bottle as a temporary fuel supply and the other day I noticed that toward the end of the bottle some of the fuel looked a bit milky. And we all know that petrol floats on top of watter... And if the jets are in water and the petrol is above.. But then the water should get sucked through shouldn't it, regardless of whether it burns or not, to be replaced with juice.. .
Oh well, I'll drop the contents of the float bowl tomorrow and see what comes out!
My brain is too fried to worry bout it now!
J
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fossie
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Re: 650 - A Couple Of Questions
I 'm reckoning the coil or least the lead. Retimming it and the problem reappearing is most likely disturbing the coil leads.
But yeah dropping the juice out can't hurt. oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo +++++++++++ooooooooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmm!! ( positive thought waves.)
But yeah dropping the juice out can't hurt. oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo +++++++++++ooooooooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmm!! ( positive thought waves.)
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G0FHM
Re: 650 - A Couple Of Questions
Well if it is th coil, or one of th attached leads, then i'm not impressed... It's only been on there a week!
But swapping the leads round didn't move the misfire like it did with the old beige coil.....
I'll try the old coil again with the known knackered lead, and see if tha moves the misfire around. If it does, then they can have the coil back! I suppose you get what you pay for -This one was 20 quid brand new!
J
But swapping the leads round didn't move the misfire like it did with the old beige coil.....
I'll try the old coil again with the known knackered lead, and see if tha moves the misfire around. If it does, then they can have the coil back! I suppose you get what you pay for -This one was 20 quid brand new!
J
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sparki
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Re: 650 - A Couple Of Questions
are the std 650 coils the white ones like on the later GSX's? if so send me a pm with your address and i'll dig one out of a box (hopefully) over the weekend
