750 popup... Regrec

[KatRider]

just gathering info for when i get back home - first thing to try is the jump leads trick, then pull the starter out and see how it compares

Pretty sure i ain't disturbed anything in the alternator case, no funny noises when the engine is running. There is a shaft/pole that holds a gear that connects the starter motor to the crank pulley. That is still in position and is sitting quite happy.

thanks

[KatRider]

Well I can only presume the starter isn't quite right.

I've had the generator cover off again, everything is good in there. Can turn the crank by hand ok.
Rebuild the generator cover and put it all back together no problem.
Taking the starter out, I can put my finger through into the generator enclosure and feel the connecting pinion... No lateral movement at all, nice and stable and free spinning on the crank cog.
This kinda removes thoughts/worries of an issue with the gearing in there.

With The starter motor out, it spins fine connecting with original wiring or jump leads. It turns fast and tries to rip out of your grip, then stays running fast for 15 seconds easy.
Put the starter back in and it turns over maybe twice at a push then the battery is empty, seems like it drawing an awesome amount of current to be able to drain a battery like that.
Now I've drained 4 good batteries from full charge to zero in about 5 seconds... 2 bike batteries and two car batteries.

I can't see it being a wiring/grounding issue, as I get the same results no matter what I do to bypass these routes (jump leads)

I'm gonna take the starter motor apart and see if there's anything amiss in there.

Does anyone have a spare starter that'll fit a popup?

What do you think? I can't seem to see anything else past there being a Starter problem?

J

[fossie]

i had a very very similar problem on my work 650 earlier this year , changed alaternator, reg /rec , cleaned earths . changed looms.eventually , as it was only electric item left, changed starter bingo jobs a good'un .
So I would say yep!
The carbon brushes are available from suzuki, though I take my starters to a local auto electricsfactor who refurb it for £25.
There must be such a place in your neck of the woods.

[KatRider]

Yeah I know a place nearby that refurbs alternators etc, so I'll see what they say for a price.

I've had a swatch on eBay and there's tonnes around for gsx/gsxf etc ( searched for gsx750 starter) they all pretty much look the same item. Do you know if they are indeed the same part across quite a range of the bikes? Or is there differences in spindle teeth and turning power/speed. At about 30 quid, it may be worth a punt.

J

[lomsavage]

gsx 750 es/ef (monoshock ones) should be the same,

and probably more readily available

[KatRider]

Gasket gasket gasket

Well slap me with a wet fish, all sorted and not how I was expecting to fix it.

Taking the starter out, I can put my finger through into the generator enclosure and feel the connecting pinion... No lateral movement at all, nice and stable and free spinning on the crank cog.

Whilst this is true... Thinking back I did this as an afterthought as I was taking the generator off, so I'd already taken the bolts holding the cover on out and it was held in place by the gasket.
I'd put it all back together this morning and tightened the generator cover up, then took the starter out just to triple check the sprocket/pinion gear set was all good and found it was locked up solid. Slacken off the generator cover bolts and it's freed up. Tighten the bolts again and it's stuck solid.
ah-ha! Found what the issue is, that would explain all the crazy starter motor draining the batteries too.

The cause of this issue? Using gasket sealer instead of a paper/card proper gasket.
That half a mm was enough to have the generator case pinch onto the pinion that connects the starter cog to the crank cog.
Fab/fit a paper/card gasket and it's not pinching the pinion, and the starter motor now works as it should.

It's also proved that the starter is good and strong lol

Lesson learned here for me... Sometimes gasket sealant is an option... Sometimes not.
Right bloody pain in the arse!

Did anyone think that would be an issue?

J

[callyboy]

I was going to tell you, but sometimes you have to learn a lesson the hard way

Well done. Aint it cool when things get sorted.

Pete

[bobster]

We need all the facts when trying to give out advice................If you had told us you were not using a gasket and just Gorilla snot instead of a gasket, we would have told you that it was probably the cause!

I personally would not use instant gasket because it cloggs up oil ways in the engine and the oil pickup in the sump ,in fact the only time I would use gasket sealent would be if I was stranded in the Goebi dessert without a gasket and the only way to get out!

Im with Pete here.................You live and learn!

[KatRider]

If it was such a common well known issue, would someone not have thrown it into the mix as the cause of the problems anyway? The tolerance of half a mm seems rather tight - but hey ho.

As for giving all the facts, i thought i'd done pretty well... unless you need to know the make of my tools, the weather, the fact i use ACF50 through the winter etc etc etc

I do appreciate the help, but not appreciate being told I hadn't given all of the facts - seems OTT IMHO.

[KatRider]

Pete,

After far too long pissing around with this thing - well happy that it got spotted and finally sorted!